Desmet definitely has some clouds hovering over him. I remember reading the part about surgery under hypnosis in his book, and should have investigated it further. And, if it is really true that he did not report a patient whom he knew to be a serial murderer on the basis that he thought he'd cured him, that's simply outrageous and unforgivable. However, I think CJ is taking some shortcuts here in his own arguments and thus presenting us with yet another Hegelian Dialectic trap.
The Mass Formation Psychosis is not new as a known phenomenon. Desmet expanded on the concept in helpful and timely ways, and particularly as it relates to psychology. However, it has manifested itself many times throughout history, including in our own time before Covid, and has been written about extensively. Consider Dutch tulips in the 16th century or contemporary North Korean society. Although not expressly named as such, Arendt had much to say about this phenomenon. To his credit, Desmet acknowledged her throughout his book. He also leaned heavily on Joost Merloo who he failed to acknowledge properly in my view.
Then, there is the matter of what many of us see with our own eyes. Have you not experienced as part of the 'new normal' this bizarre existence where 'everything is fine, life is normal, and we can talk about anything, except reality'? Have you not seen people freeze and zone out right before your eyes when you try to talk about anything that goes against the narratives and then suddenly snap back and change the subject as if you said nothing? When I've encountered this, it has certainly felt like I was witnessing something deeply psychological. Others who have had similar encounters have said the same to me. Of course, this is anecdotal and I'm no psychologist, but unless I'm mistaken, neither of us is. I simply suggest you are being bit overly dismissive of the Mass Formation Psychosis theory because of issues specific to Desmet.
The existence of a MFP and a deliberate agenda on the part of powerful people who knew and know exactly what they are doing are perfectly compatible possibilities in my view. I know when I first read Arendt's 'The Origins of Totalitarianism', I certainly felt I was following in the footsteps of our Covid-era oppressors insomuch as it seemed very clear to me that they too had studied her work very closely a long time ago.
I am glad you made your comment, Dave. Thank you. Mass Formation Psychosis theory coined by Matthias Desmet--whether it is the absolute truth or not, or whether Matthias Desmet deserves to become another hero--seems to be distracting us away from the fact that, it does exist. You can go back to a number of examples; one is Edward Bernays and his "public relations' propaganda to manipulate the American people to enter WWI. There is an excellent four-part 2002 documentary called "The Century of Self". I watched it when it came out, and as an anthropologist, psychologist and other things, that docuseries really opened my eyes to the mass formation paradigm.
Right now, bringing attention to the catastrophic events in WW II is necessary. It seems that the work of Matthias Desmet and his theory of MFP has been doing that. It boldly draws attention to you/me/us. That is important! Because if we can't look clearly, and unattached at ourselves, and the strong possibility that, we have unconsciously allowed ourselves for a very long time to be dupped by the many cushy attractions of the technologically, manipulated, politically masterminded system, then there is no hope for us. Also, a good many people need heroes, saviors and intelligent messengers to give them guidance, hope and answers. Matthias Desmet has done that, but what he is offering is disturbing, confronting and it takes responsibility; it takes wisdom, and an intuition. Matthias Desmet has exposed himself in every manner by writing his book, giving numerous interviews. He may be a hero, but he is also vulnerable to scrutiny by everyone, many who want his theory to be debunked, and just might be jealous that he is seen as one of those heroes. To me, his message is brilliant, as I have noticed much of what he has researched myself for a long time. And as you say, most people want to think everything is fine, to get on with their normal life. Most people are conditioned to get along, to not rock the boat of social reality--the world has been good to them; most people have pride in how they were groomed, pride in being successful, pride in their country and can't see beyond the reality of that pride. But right now, courage, humility, letting go and insight is desperately needed to step outside of one's reality to see the extreme dependence on the system, which has been increasing for a long time. The mass formation psychosis as it was before-2020, was well hidden, subtle, not so noticeable. But right now, it is definitely evident and if we can pass through the contentious gossip and individual voices who get stuck in the rhetoric, we can understand how it works, learn about the human mind and stand up for ourselves.
"Then, there is the matter of what many of us see with our own eyes. Have you not experienced as part of the 'new normal' this bizarre existence where 'everything is fine, life is normal, and we can talk about anything, except reality'? Have you not seen people freeze and zone out right before your eyes when you try to talk about anything that goes against the narratives and then suddenly snap back and change the subject as if you said nothing?"
Yes, every single time, with very few exceptions. Its bloody painful. Everywhere I look I see life just going on like absolutely nothing wrong or weird. It does my head in.
I like your charitable approach to Desmet, though I am not too sure i'll let him off the hook so quite so quickly. Personally I see him as just another specialist who is possibly blind to truth od the wider world around him. I'm not going to say that he has bad intentions, I just think he's wrong if he's suggesting that this "Mass Formation" has not "formed" in gounds that were not purposely cultivated to provide an environment where the "Mass Formation" is the only thing that could have "formed". I have not read Arendt yet but have read Meerloo. I found when reading The Rape of The Mind that I was almost laughing hysterically at how the behaviours he describled so perfectly matched those that I saw all around me.
Thanks John. Being charitable is not my intent. I’ve called Desmet out several times for several issues. I simply perceive, rightly or wrongly, that a lot of people are suddenly trying to dismiss his work outright, possibly based on a questionable characterisation of his position, which even if true still would not mean the work is without merit or that intentions were bad. Merloo was a genius in his insights. He certainly influenced Arendt’s work...his books were short and concise. Nothing wrong with that, but Arendt’a work offers a much more comprehensive look at the subject-matter. Definitely recommend. FYI, Arendt did not argue what 2nd Greatest et all are asserting and Desmet cites her constantly in his book. If he really actively took the position some are asserting I would think he’d of made the distinction. Instead, I think people are making a mountain out of something... not quite sure what their reasons are, save perhaps to distance themselves from Desmet’s personal issues, which are a separate matter, IMO.
These matters are so complex when dealing with the esoteric thoughts of individuals. I too don't know if Desmet has another game on the go, I suspect not. But we certainly shouldnt throw the baby out with the bath water.
This is pretty much the way I understand it except that, in my not well educated ways, there is no emphasis on it being imposed upon us through mainly the fear from the very beginning. That being re-inforced by
propaganda and severe censorship. Had the whole "epidemic" been treated
in a pragmatic, calm way, with appropriate precautions and available treatments, not only there would've been less carnage but also we would've been out of this mess by now. IMHO. So basically putting
most of the "blame" for it (MF) on populations as if it has developed
organically, naturally because of the way we, humans are ignores the
enormous pressures under which people succumbed to it.
Thank you, Marta. Actually though, evidence that things have been "imposed on us through ... fear from the beginning" is overwhelming. Laura Dodsworth's, 'A State of Fear' from 2021 effectively demonstrates this beyond all doubt. She brings plenty of receipts, not least in terms of FOIA releases and many interviews with SAGE members and other government insiders. In fact, Dodsworth's book is just the beginning and those who read it will likely feel compelled to research more and more from there, going all the way back to Edward Bernays's Propaganda in the 1920's which many have cited here... and even before that in fact. Also, on pages like this at least, I suspect the majority of us do believe the way the 'pandemic' was managed was not down to happenstance or even just incompetence, but rather it was by design. That's certainly the conclusion I reluctantly reached after 2 years of non-stop book reading. I'm still reading, and still of the same view. Anyway, thanks for reading my comment and for sharing your thoughts.
Dear 2nd Smartest, a follow up comment to you and to CJ:
Dividing those who are united in their opposition to the tyranny and weaponizing them against one another is not a good move. It plays into Power's hands perfectly, as does the excessive ad hominem you sometimes indulge in. It makes it relatively easy for those who want to to undermine the important substance of what you are saying, thereby making those who may be reluctant but reachable less likely to hear you. Again, all this plays into Power's hands.
It's fine to call out Desmet for his issues. I certainly have no problem with that. But making that the focus or letting the merits of Mass Formation, which, as I have said is well documented by others before Desmet, live or die based on Desmet's personal credibility is a mistake. Mass Formation may well be just another tool our elites have used to pursue their heinous agendas.
Our enemies are not to our right or our left. They are united above us and pressing down hard. The real battle should be singularly focussed in that direction. Anything else is a distraction on the part of We the People, which is exactly what Power wants.
The "mass formation" behavior pattern is prepared by decades of psychological manipulation and propaganda, and triggered by engineered "crises" which create stress and fear. The herd then stampedes in the desired direction. Same as it ever was, as you suggest.
Desmet was recently interviewed by activist Del Bigtree at thehighwire.com, and he seemed to suggest that personal inner peace is the answer, that resistance to the manipulators is essentially futile, etc. At least that's how it came across.
"Personal inner peace" is all we got? Not true at all! In several interviews, Desmet has emphasized how important it is for us, who are not "under the spell," to keep talking about what's happening to try to introduce reality to others, rather than clamming upnand leaving the hypnotized alone to fall further into the chasm. He makes the point that we need to reverse the conditions what make mass formation so likely.
Sep 11, 2022Liked by 2nd Smartest Guy in the World
"The greatest threat to humans today is the same one that has crushed freedom and the human spirit, and murdered untold hundreds of millions of people since the dawn of civilization. The greatest threat comes from violent bullies collaborating to dominate and exploit as huge numbers of people as possible. This threat does not arise out of people suffering from a mass psychosis but from violent, authoritarian individuals or groups that conspire to intimidate, overwhelm, and exploit the people." Dr. Peter Breggin
I'd like to add that there is mass induced psychosis and lifelong indoctrination which creates much of the death cult compliance.
French philosopher and self avowed Marxist Louis Althusser touched upon this in his seminal essay Ideological State Apparatus.
Mass induced psychosis (my term) is as real as it is deliberate and it is all pervasive via media, BigTech, and various other State propaganda nodes.
We see the work of Leni Riefenstah and how she mass induced hatred through her powerful films, or Joseph Goebbels and his ministry of propaganda. If mass induced psychosis did not work, then our enemies would not be actively deploying it against us 24/7/365.
Sep 11, 2022Liked by 2nd Smartest Guy in the World
I had a unique experience of traveling abroad and then having to almost immediately return to the US the week international travel was shut down days prior to the 15 day BS. This was a lockstep planned operation meant to psychologically terrorize the world. It was rolled out on a coordinated schedule with well thought out propaganda. The response by the public was a result of their purposeful actions and they have admitted they used military developed psychological tactics on the people to elicit fear and obedience. Yes a certain part of the population bought it hook line and sinker and some did not as would always be the case. Over a period of 4 days I witnessed the rollout out in multiple countries of printed propaganda, temperature sensors, armed military in airports wearing masks/gloves, and I overheard a pilot talking to another pilot confirming that was his last flight a day before the official announcement no further international flights would be allowed. When I arrived home and ran to our local small town grocery store they had set-up the wait in a line outside six feet apart BS that every store ‘suddenly’ thought of doing in lockstep along with playing communist recordings about being stronger together. Desmet is just ensuring those responsible never get any scrutiny by blaming the victims.
No. It's simply wrong. As Hopkins is wrong. Desmet never "blames the victims". Why is this notion being spread so aggressively right now? It's utterly dishonest.
Sep 11, 2022Liked by 2nd Smartest Guy in the World
There are at least 4 people I am aware of (Catherine Austin Fits, Dr. Peter Breggin (and his wife, Ginger) Ulrike Granögger (her review of Desmet's book can be found on Solari.com) and now CJ Hopkins who've come to a different interpretation than you based on what they've read.
That's all. They see a problem with some aspects of the theory. You don't have to agree.
I also had some problems with Desmet's book, not least that it was a rushed work, but that does not mean there was not also a lot of value to be found in it. Furthermore, and I will say it again, Desmet was not the first to write about the Mass Formation, and it would be a mistake to let issues related his personal credibility cloud all else on this issue. Desmet may have given it a new name, but the concept of the Mass Formation has been well explored by giants far greater than him in decades past. You can even see it in the work of Étienne de La Boétie nearly 475 years ago.
I believe the dishonesty Phillip above is referring to relates to conflating all lines of inquiry relating to Mass Formation with some kind of ploy aimed at letting our globalist totalitarians off the hook. That would certainly be dishonest, but that is how this is starting to come across. The Hegelian Dialectic strikes again. It is almost as if there is a sudden push to suppress debate and discussion. (I thought that was what the other side does?) Again, I concur with Philip. It seems artificially aggressive. Why all the infighting, when it's pretty clear to most of us on this page who the real enemies are and where the threats to We the People are coming from - Mass Formation or not?
I think JohnSmith above has it right where he says, "The "mass formation" behavior pattern is prepared by decades of psychological manipulation and propaganda, and triggered by engineered "crises" which create stress and fear. The herd then stampedes in the desired direction."
If our globalist totalitarians are the ones who have set a Mass Formation in motion, as many of us who are probably with you and 2nd Smartest in most other respects believe, why would we not want to try to understand and undo it, which is something I believe Desmet advocated and provided practical advice for in his book?
Perhaps we're all having a misunderstanding here, but something doesn't seem right. It also seems as though 2nd Smartest has moderated his position somewhat in his comments. It just seems a bit odd, that's all.
Breggin has made it clear he's happy to debate Desmet, which I would love to see - they are both in the same field. And like in any field, people disagree.
I think there is room for interpretation and nuance and I also think those who've been warning humanity for years - CAF and Breggin, Rappoport - have opinions, for me, with weight.
It's a difficult environment right now, and many people are eager to see actual accountability because we never ever get accountability, and so those in the truth movement are sensitive to any argument that pops up and veers people away from understanding this was a plan, there was global coordination, we know many of the names, and they need to be held responsible. (This does not exclude individual responsibility either - it's a matter of emphasis and orientation.)
Obviously we have serious people who read the book and are interpreting his words this way. Not everyone. For those who do, he will be viewed as suspicious (I think) because we all understand something about controlled ops and are alert to infiltrators. That doesn't mean, Desmet is that. It doesn't mean, his book and argument don't have excellent points and are useful as a working theory for some. All of that can be true at once.
The mass formation theory, yes, been around a long time. Not everyone agrees with the theory. (Why would they and if they did wouldn't that also be an ex of mass formation?)
I think some of us in the "resistance" are resistant to the criticism those not in camp with the theory, are getting.
Desmet probably has a piece - just a piece of it - of a much larger phenomenon. I think sophisticated technologies around mind-control have a bigger piece and frequency vulnerability.
We all wanted something to make it make sense - Desmet's book felt like an answer - I drank it up too. Over time it will likely find its place in our growing understanding of what happened.
Sep 11, 2022Liked by 2nd Smartest Guy in the World
You seem to be a bit agitated over this. Are you personally acquainted with Prof Desmet? On what basis do you claim to "understand his work"? Why so quick to disparage others as "utterly dishonest"?
It seems curious that this obscure author has suddenly received so much attention. Perhaps, as others suggest, there are some subtle aspects to his work and his motives that are not immediately obvious and deserve further scrutiny.
You call that an argument? You're hardly supporting your claims by fusing me of being "agitated". You really have nothing better to do than literally troll a comment section of substack?
There are a lot of nuances that some may not be fully appreciating.
I'd like to add that there is mass induced psychosis (my term) and lifelong indoctrination which creates much of the death cult compliance.
French philosopher and self avowed Marxist Louis Althusser touched upon this in his seminal essay Ideological State Apparatus.
Mass induced psychosis is as real as it is deliberate and it is all pervasive via media, BigTech, and various other State propaganda nodes.
We see the work of Leni Riefenstah and how she mass induced hatred through her powerful films, or Joseph Goebbels and his ministry of propaganda. If mass induced psychosis did not work, then our enemies would not be actively deploying it against us 24/7/365.
Mass induced psychosis puts the blame squarely on TPTB and is wholly inorganic whereas Desmet claims that his mass formation IS organic and not centrally planned. And this is the crux of the matter.
Sep 12, 2022·edited Sep 12, 2022Liked by 2nd Smartest Guy in the World
Nearly 100 years ago, Edward Bernays wrote the following:
"We are dominated by the relatively small number of persons who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind...and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world." -- Edward Bernays, "Propaganda", chapter 1 (1928)
It doesn't get much more clear than this. Bernays, the "father of public relations", was an advisor to CBS founder William Paley. Paley was also a long-time member of the CFR, which has "controlled the public mind" with increasing sophistication to "bind and guide the world" ever since.
RE: "Mass induced psychosis puts the blame squarely on TPTB", I agree completely. I think leading with this argument would have been the ideal way to approach this from the start as this is not how it came across... Ditto for CJ's article, assuming he agrees with you here.
RE: "... is wholly inorganic whereas Desmet claims that his mass formation IS organic and not centrally planned." I did feel Desmet was soft or noncommittal in ascribing blame for the Mass Formation Psychosis, but maybe he did not feel competent to do so at the time. And, it is certainly possible to set something "organic" in motion. Regarding it "not being centrally planned" did Desmet truly take that position? I think I would remember if he had, but I don't honestly recall, so I'm asking?
Is it possible that this is a squabble over terminology? BTW, I like your term better.
I see everything you outlined as exactly WHY Desmet is correct! His paradigm for mass formation was EXPLOITED by TPTB to induce fear, disconnectedness, hopelessness. The constant drumbeat of coordinated propaganda was used specifically to induce the irrational behaviors they did, just as they did with other greatest hits like "Climate change!," "Trump is literally Hitler," "Russia!," "Ukraine!" Both can be true: Mass formation is the phenomenon, and this was done to society on purpose.
Sep 11, 2022Liked by 2nd Smartest Guy in the World
God Give me Strength..Seriously?
These.moronic assholes are truly the walking dead..They aint playing movie extra parts... Im talking bout the 'Experts' as for the peeps? It can never be made sense of..too big a rabbit hole. Jst grateful to know there are true like minded Souls out here in the wilderness of NO, I wil not, I do not Consent to ANYTHING that compromises my understanding of Free Will/Choice/Divine Nature
Then you clearly don't have the mental abilities to comprehend it. It's really not that difficult. WTF is wrong with you folks? Have you even listened to Desmet explain it? It makes perfect sense and he never "blames the victim". And I now cannot trust anyone who claims that he does. That means anybody here, Hopkins, anyone who pretends to not understand Desmet is suspect as hell.
Malone seems to have done lots of good. Bad judgement to start w Desmet tho. Hes had a phenomenally successful career of excellent judgment so he needs to be watched. I took my subscription to him off paid.
Isn't anyone concerned about all of his DoD/DARPA/BARDA work? He was proposal manager or program manager or chief guru on a large number of very expensive government IDIQ contracts. He has been working in defense biotech for ages. Also, he supposedly took famotidine to treat his January 2020 case of Covid (how did he know it was Covid? tested antibodies later?) He had already run the chemistry against the SARS genome in order to know famotidine could help. He is knowledgeable about the patents. Lots to think about.
Fighting invites more of the same. Creating new paradigms and groups and opinions will seed and reseed for ever. Growth is the desired result. Growth of the good we desire rather than fight the evil we dont want.
The psychological condition IS the power. Hitler would have been harmless without the masses ... I do not see the trouble with acknowledging the human flaw of mass formation while directing anger and force for change at those who use it ...
Mass formation is nothing new ... Desmet was only articulating “popular delusions and the madness of crowds”.
This doesn’t change the phenomenon of Trauma Based Mind Control, so effectively utilized on 9/11 and other FF PsyOps to use emotional conditioning to download a control narrative that is unopposed and repeated.
It is invariably a combination of many factors. The consistent tactic on all levels is divide and conquer to maintain the chaos for later re-ordering.
‘It must be true because I saw it on TV’ has been replaced by:
‘It must be true because my Smart Phone didn’t censor it.’
Not sure why Hopkins can't seem to wrap his head around this, nor why he is so aggressive in advertising gowns why he doesn't understand it. Hopkins' description of the theory is so dishonest and wrong that I can't help but think that someone as seemingly intelligent as Hopkins has an agenda. Matthias never once suggests that the causes of mass formation are anything other than manipulations from above. And Hopkins isn't the only one in attack-dog mode regarding this. Hopkins is really damaging his reputation with this, since he either has an agenda, or he really isn't that smart.
Understanding how people en masse buy into propaganda and willingly and even zealously turn a dogged blind eye to the truth is worth psychological scrutiny. PsyOps is aware of the psychology of masses and they use that to manipulate. Nothing wrong with the masses to become educated on how this happens so they can be better aware and protect themselves and understand others. Desmet is very clear that deliberate victimization has occurred and that fear is being used to manipulate.
You can't just go around reporting patient's crimes. There is confidentiality. You are mandated to report only if you think they are about to commit murder. that is the duty to warn. A psychologist is not supposed to turn in their patients for past deeds, no matter how heinous. If they're currently engaged in child abuse, killing people, etc, then you must report.
Okay, so Desmet was morally wrong to not report his patient's crimes. And he was wrong to lie about seeing open-heart surgery with only hypnosis for anesthesia.
But I'm not willing to throw out his mass formation theory as a fraud, and here's why:
Being the type who doesn't take anyone's word for anything, I double-checked the claim that his theory lets the totalitarian leaders off the hook because they too are hypnotized and 'don't know what they're doing', or that there is no deliberate conspiracy at the top, or that 'there is no one and nothing to fight'.
I went back to Desmet's early interview with Aubrey Marcus (Jan. 2022). The above interpretations are not supportable. Specifically, Desmet's idea that the rulers are hypnotized is a more nuanced one.
In fact, he offers the best explanation I've seen so far, about how the so-called controllers can make such huge blunders in public - and everyone can see it except for them.
This is from the transcript near the end of that long interview:
"The field of attention of the person who hypnotizes is usually even narrower than the masses themselves. So that’s why the experts in this situation, they make mistakes that ordinary people wouldn’t make, and that it was very clear to me from the beginning. If you look at the statistics and the numbers that are presented through the mass media, they often are so blatantly wrong that even a child can see it. And still it is as if many of the experts do not realize it. And that’s because in one way or another, they very often are hypnotized, or their field of attention is even narrower. So we could talk for days about the leaders of the masses.
It’s very complicated because in one way or another, they are hypnotized. In another way, they often manipulate and cheat and lie to the people, and that’s because they do really believe in their ideology and the ideals they are striving for. That’s something they are usually hypnotized by.
But usually they do not believe in the narrative that they are presenting to the people. They feel that it is justified to lie to the people and to manipulate them. So you have to make a distinction there. They are hypnotized in this sense that they really believe in a megalomaniac way, that their ideology will create a kind of a paradise for humanity. But that doesn’t mean that they believe everything they are telling, because usually they know that they are manipulating the population. So it’s double, I think."
Desmet also identified a segment who go along with the narrative from fear rather than sincere belief - only he puts the number at 40%, whereas Hopkins thinks it's 66%. No real rebuttal there.
And Desmet DOES say that we (the noncompliant 30%) need to fight -- first to find others like us, and then to form a community -- in his words, the goal is to "survive outside of the system in a parallel structure and just wait until the system destroys itself."
He even predicted that the implosion of this totalitarian system would happen faster than in the past.
And since one test to validate a scientific theory is its ability to predict, I am waiting to see if he is right.
Desmet definitely has some clouds hovering over him. I remember reading the part about surgery under hypnosis in his book, and should have investigated it further. And, if it is really true that he did not report a patient whom he knew to be a serial murderer on the basis that he thought he'd cured him, that's simply outrageous and unforgivable. However, I think CJ is taking some shortcuts here in his own arguments and thus presenting us with yet another Hegelian Dialectic trap.
The Mass Formation Psychosis is not new as a known phenomenon. Desmet expanded on the concept in helpful and timely ways, and particularly as it relates to psychology. However, it has manifested itself many times throughout history, including in our own time before Covid, and has been written about extensively. Consider Dutch tulips in the 16th century or contemporary North Korean society. Although not expressly named as such, Arendt had much to say about this phenomenon. To his credit, Desmet acknowledged her throughout his book. He also leaned heavily on Joost Merloo who he failed to acknowledge properly in my view.
Then, there is the matter of what many of us see with our own eyes. Have you not experienced as part of the 'new normal' this bizarre existence where 'everything is fine, life is normal, and we can talk about anything, except reality'? Have you not seen people freeze and zone out right before your eyes when you try to talk about anything that goes against the narratives and then suddenly snap back and change the subject as if you said nothing? When I've encountered this, it has certainly felt like I was witnessing something deeply psychological. Others who have had similar encounters have said the same to me. Of course, this is anecdotal and I'm no psychologist, but unless I'm mistaken, neither of us is. I simply suggest you are being bit overly dismissive of the Mass Formation Psychosis theory because of issues specific to Desmet.
The existence of a MFP and a deliberate agenda on the part of powerful people who knew and know exactly what they are doing are perfectly compatible possibilities in my view. I know when I first read Arendt's 'The Origins of Totalitarianism', I certainly felt I was following in the footsteps of our Covid-era oppressors insomuch as it seemed very clear to me that they too had studied her work very closely a long time ago.
I am glad you made your comment, Dave. Thank you. Mass Formation Psychosis theory coined by Matthias Desmet--whether it is the absolute truth or not, or whether Matthias Desmet deserves to become another hero--seems to be distracting us away from the fact that, it does exist. You can go back to a number of examples; one is Edward Bernays and his "public relations' propaganda to manipulate the American people to enter WWI. There is an excellent four-part 2002 documentary called "The Century of Self". I watched it when it came out, and as an anthropologist, psychologist and other things, that docuseries really opened my eyes to the mass formation paradigm.
Right now, bringing attention to the catastrophic events in WW II is necessary. It seems that the work of Matthias Desmet and his theory of MFP has been doing that. It boldly draws attention to you/me/us. That is important! Because if we can't look clearly, and unattached at ourselves, and the strong possibility that, we have unconsciously allowed ourselves for a very long time to be dupped by the many cushy attractions of the technologically, manipulated, politically masterminded system, then there is no hope for us. Also, a good many people need heroes, saviors and intelligent messengers to give them guidance, hope and answers. Matthias Desmet has done that, but what he is offering is disturbing, confronting and it takes responsibility; it takes wisdom, and an intuition. Matthias Desmet has exposed himself in every manner by writing his book, giving numerous interviews. He may be a hero, but he is also vulnerable to scrutiny by everyone, many who want his theory to be debunked, and just might be jealous that he is seen as one of those heroes. To me, his message is brilliant, as I have noticed much of what he has researched myself for a long time. And as you say, most people want to think everything is fine, to get on with their normal life. Most people are conditioned to get along, to not rock the boat of social reality--the world has been good to them; most people have pride in how they were groomed, pride in being successful, pride in their country and can't see beyond the reality of that pride. But right now, courage, humility, letting go and insight is desperately needed to step outside of one's reality to see the extreme dependence on the system, which has been increasing for a long time. The mass formation psychosis as it was before-2020, was well hidden, subtle, not so noticeable. But right now, it is definitely evident and if we can pass through the contentious gossip and individual voices who get stuck in the rhetoric, we can understand how it works, learn about the human mind and stand up for ourselves.
Very helpful and insightful. Thank you for taking the time, Hillary.
Dave, let me answer your question:
"Then, there is the matter of what many of us see with our own eyes. Have you not experienced as part of the 'new normal' this bizarre existence where 'everything is fine, life is normal, and we can talk about anything, except reality'? Have you not seen people freeze and zone out right before your eyes when you try to talk about anything that goes against the narratives and then suddenly snap back and change the subject as if you said nothing?"
Yes, every single time, with very few exceptions. Its bloody painful. Everywhere I look I see life just going on like absolutely nothing wrong or weird. It does my head in.
I like your charitable approach to Desmet, though I am not too sure i'll let him off the hook so quite so quickly. Personally I see him as just another specialist who is possibly blind to truth od the wider world around him. I'm not going to say that he has bad intentions, I just think he's wrong if he's suggesting that this "Mass Formation" has not "formed" in gounds that were not purposely cultivated to provide an environment where the "Mass Formation" is the only thing that could have "formed". I have not read Arendt yet but have read Meerloo. I found when reading The Rape of The Mind that I was almost laughing hysterically at how the behaviours he describled so perfectly matched those that I saw all around me.
Thanks John. Being charitable is not my intent. I’ve called Desmet out several times for several issues. I simply perceive, rightly or wrongly, that a lot of people are suddenly trying to dismiss his work outright, possibly based on a questionable characterisation of his position, which even if true still would not mean the work is without merit or that intentions were bad. Merloo was a genius in his insights. He certainly influenced Arendt’s work...his books were short and concise. Nothing wrong with that, but Arendt’a work offers a much more comprehensive look at the subject-matter. Definitely recommend. FYI, Arendt did not argue what 2nd Greatest et all are asserting and Desmet cites her constantly in his book. If he really actively took the position some are asserting I would think he’d of made the distinction. Instead, I think people are making a mountain out of something... not quite sure what their reasons are, save perhaps to distance themselves from Desmet’s personal issues, which are a separate matter, IMO.
These matters are so complex when dealing with the esoteric thoughts of individuals. I too don't know if Desmet has another game on the go, I suspect not. But we certainly shouldnt throw the baby out with the bath water.
Well put!
This is pretty much the way I understand it except that, in my not well educated ways, there is no emphasis on it being imposed upon us through mainly the fear from the very beginning. That being re-inforced by
propaganda and severe censorship. Had the whole "epidemic" been treated
in a pragmatic, calm way, with appropriate precautions and available treatments, not only there would've been less carnage but also we would've been out of this mess by now. IMHO. So basically putting
most of the "blame" for it (MF) on populations as if it has developed
organically, naturally because of the way we, humans are ignores the
enormous pressures under which people succumbed to it.
Thank you, Marta. Actually though, evidence that things have been "imposed on us through ... fear from the beginning" is overwhelming. Laura Dodsworth's, 'A State of Fear' from 2021 effectively demonstrates this beyond all doubt. She brings plenty of receipts, not least in terms of FOIA releases and many interviews with SAGE members and other government insiders. In fact, Dodsworth's book is just the beginning and those who read it will likely feel compelled to research more and more from there, going all the way back to Edward Bernays's Propaganda in the 1920's which many have cited here... and even before that in fact. Also, on pages like this at least, I suspect the majority of us do believe the way the 'pandemic' was managed was not down to happenstance or even just incompetence, but rather it was by design. That's certainly the conclusion I reluctantly reached after 2 years of non-stop book reading. I'm still reading, and still of the same view. Anyway, thanks for reading my comment and for sharing your thoughts.
Dear 2nd Smartest, a follow up comment to you and to CJ:
Dividing those who are united in their opposition to the tyranny and weaponizing them against one another is not a good move. It plays into Power's hands perfectly, as does the excessive ad hominem you sometimes indulge in. It makes it relatively easy for those who want to to undermine the important substance of what you are saying, thereby making those who may be reluctant but reachable less likely to hear you. Again, all this plays into Power's hands.
It's fine to call out Desmet for his issues. I certainly have no problem with that. But making that the focus or letting the merits of Mass Formation, which, as I have said is well documented by others before Desmet, live or die based on Desmet's personal credibility is a mistake. Mass Formation may well be just another tool our elites have used to pursue their heinous agendas.
Our enemies are not to our right or our left. They are united above us and pressing down hard. The real battle should be singularly focussed in that direction. Anything else is a distraction on the part of We the People, which is exactly what Power wants.
The "mass formation" behavior pattern is prepared by decades of psychological manipulation and propaganda, and triggered by engineered "crises" which create stress and fear. The herd then stampedes in the desired direction. Same as it ever was, as you suggest.
Desmet was recently interviewed by activist Del Bigtree at thehighwire.com, and he seemed to suggest that personal inner peace is the answer, that resistance to the manipulators is essentially futile, etc. At least that's how it came across.
"Personal inner peace" is all we got? Not true at all! In several interviews, Desmet has emphasized how important it is for us, who are not "under the spell," to keep talking about what's happening to try to introduce reality to others, rather than clamming upnand leaving the hypnotized alone to fall further into the chasm. He makes the point that we need to reverse the conditions what make mass formation so likely.
"The greatest threat to humans today is the same one that has crushed freedom and the human spirit, and murdered untold hundreds of millions of people since the dawn of civilization. The greatest threat comes from violent bullies collaborating to dominate and exploit as huge numbers of people as possible. This threat does not arise out of people suffering from a mass psychosis but from violent, authoritarian individuals or groups that conspire to intimidate, overwhelm, and exploit the people." Dr. Peter Breggin
I'd like to add that there is mass induced psychosis and lifelong indoctrination which creates much of the death cult compliance.
French philosopher and self avowed Marxist Louis Althusser touched upon this in his seminal essay Ideological State Apparatus.
Mass induced psychosis (my term) is as real as it is deliberate and it is all pervasive via media, BigTech, and various other State propaganda nodes.
We see the work of Leni Riefenstah and how she mass induced hatred through her powerful films, or Joseph Goebbels and his ministry of propaganda. If mass induced psychosis did not work, then our enemies would not be actively deploying it against us 24/7/365.
Malone is bad news. Beware. Breggin has a lifetime of good works, fighting the system, fighting for children.
https://www.brighteon.com/6602e8ae-fa8a-45aa-aaa3-b70a4832039f
thanks for this. if you think that's bad, https://www.bitchute.com/video/JvkXyUpr8Op2/
SH tipped me off to this
I had a unique experience of traveling abroad and then having to almost immediately return to the US the week international travel was shut down days prior to the 15 day BS. This was a lockstep planned operation meant to psychologically terrorize the world. It was rolled out on a coordinated schedule with well thought out propaganda. The response by the public was a result of their purposeful actions and they have admitted they used military developed psychological tactics on the people to elicit fear and obedience. Yes a certain part of the population bought it hook line and sinker and some did not as would always be the case. Over a period of 4 days I witnessed the rollout out in multiple countries of printed propaganda, temperature sensors, armed military in airports wearing masks/gloves, and I overheard a pilot talking to another pilot confirming that was his last flight a day before the official announcement no further international flights would be allowed. When I arrived home and ran to our local small town grocery store they had set-up the wait in a line outside six feet apart BS that every store ‘suddenly’ thought of doing in lockstep along with playing communist recordings about being stronger together. Desmet is just ensuring those responsible never get any scrutiny by blaming the victims.
Perfectly observed and explained.
No. It's simply wrong. As Hopkins is wrong. Desmet never "blames the victims". Why is this notion being spread so aggressively right now? It's utterly dishonest.
There are at least 4 people I am aware of (Catherine Austin Fits, Dr. Peter Breggin (and his wife, Ginger) Ulrike Granögger (her review of Desmet's book can be found on Solari.com) and now CJ Hopkins who've come to a different interpretation than you based on what they've read.
That's all. They see a problem with some aspects of the theory. You don't have to agree.
That doesn't make any of them dishonest.
I also had some problems with Desmet's book, not least that it was a rushed work, but that does not mean there was not also a lot of value to be found in it. Furthermore, and I will say it again, Desmet was not the first to write about the Mass Formation, and it would be a mistake to let issues related his personal credibility cloud all else on this issue. Desmet may have given it a new name, but the concept of the Mass Formation has been well explored by giants far greater than him in decades past. You can even see it in the work of Étienne de La Boétie nearly 475 years ago.
I believe the dishonesty Phillip above is referring to relates to conflating all lines of inquiry relating to Mass Formation with some kind of ploy aimed at letting our globalist totalitarians off the hook. That would certainly be dishonest, but that is how this is starting to come across. The Hegelian Dialectic strikes again. It is almost as if there is a sudden push to suppress debate and discussion. (I thought that was what the other side does?) Again, I concur with Philip. It seems artificially aggressive. Why all the infighting, when it's pretty clear to most of us on this page who the real enemies are and where the threats to We the People are coming from - Mass Formation or not?
I think JohnSmith above has it right where he says, "The "mass formation" behavior pattern is prepared by decades of psychological manipulation and propaganda, and triggered by engineered "crises" which create stress and fear. The herd then stampedes in the desired direction."
If our globalist totalitarians are the ones who have set a Mass Formation in motion, as many of us who are probably with you and 2nd Smartest in most other respects believe, why would we not want to try to understand and undo it, which is something I believe Desmet advocated and provided practical advice for in his book?
Perhaps we're all having a misunderstanding here, but something doesn't seem right. It also seems as though 2nd Smartest has moderated his position somewhat in his comments. It just seems a bit odd, that's all.
Thanks.
I agree something isn't quite right.
Breggin has made it clear he's happy to debate Desmet, which I would love to see - they are both in the same field. And like in any field, people disagree.
I think there is room for interpretation and nuance and I also think those who've been warning humanity for years - CAF and Breggin, Rappoport - have opinions, for me, with weight.
It's a difficult environment right now, and many people are eager to see actual accountability because we never ever get accountability, and so those in the truth movement are sensitive to any argument that pops up and veers people away from understanding this was a plan, there was global coordination, we know many of the names, and they need to be held responsible. (This does not exclude individual responsibility either - it's a matter of emphasis and orientation.)
Obviously we have serious people who read the book and are interpreting his words this way. Not everyone. For those who do, he will be viewed as suspicious (I think) because we all understand something about controlled ops and are alert to infiltrators. That doesn't mean, Desmet is that. It doesn't mean, his book and argument don't have excellent points and are useful as a working theory for some. All of that can be true at once.
The mass formation theory, yes, been around a long time. Not everyone agrees with the theory. (Why would they and if they did wouldn't that also be an ex of mass formation?)
I think some of us in the "resistance" are resistant to the criticism those not in camp with the theory, are getting.
Desmet probably has a piece - just a piece of it - of a much larger phenomenon. I think sophisticated technologies around mind-control have a bigger piece and frequency vulnerability.
We all wanted something to make it make sense - Desmet's book felt like an answer - I drank it up too. Over time it will likely find its place in our growing understanding of what happened.
Desmet doesn't - ever - blame the victims! You, and Hopkins, clearly don't understand Desmet or are deliberately lying about his work.
You seem to be a bit agitated over this. Are you personally acquainted with Prof Desmet? On what basis do you claim to "understand his work"? Why so quick to disparage others as "utterly dishonest"?
It seems curious that this obscure author has suddenly received so much attention. Perhaps, as others suggest, there are some subtle aspects to his work and his motives that are not immediately obvious and deserve further scrutiny.
You call that an argument? You're hardly supporting your claims by fusing me of being "agitated". You really have nothing better to do than literally troll a comment section of substack?
There are a lot of nuances that some may not be fully appreciating.
I'd like to add that there is mass induced psychosis (my term) and lifelong indoctrination which creates much of the death cult compliance.
French philosopher and self avowed Marxist Louis Althusser touched upon this in his seminal essay Ideological State Apparatus.
Mass induced psychosis is as real as it is deliberate and it is all pervasive via media, BigTech, and various other State propaganda nodes.
We see the work of Leni Riefenstah and how she mass induced hatred through her powerful films, or Joseph Goebbels and his ministry of propaganda. If mass induced psychosis did not work, then our enemies would not be actively deploying it against us 24/7/365.
Mass induced psychosis puts the blame squarely on TPTB and is wholly inorganic whereas Desmet claims that his mass formation IS organic and not centrally planned. And this is the crux of the matter.
I hope that helps.
Nearly 100 years ago, Edward Bernays wrote the following:
"We are dominated by the relatively small number of persons who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind...and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world." -- Edward Bernays, "Propaganda", chapter 1 (1928)
archive.org/details/bernays-edward-l.-propaganda-1928-1936_202107/page/9/mode/2up
It doesn't get much more clear than this. Bernays, the "father of public relations", was an advisor to CBS founder William Paley. Paley was also a long-time member of the CFR, which has "controlled the public mind" with increasing sophistication to "bind and guide the world" ever since.
Precisely!
I will add this quote to the latest article i just posted.
Thanks.
RE: "Mass induced psychosis puts the blame squarely on TPTB", I agree completely. I think leading with this argument would have been the ideal way to approach this from the start as this is not how it came across... Ditto for CJ's article, assuming he agrees with you here.
RE: "... is wholly inorganic whereas Desmet claims that his mass formation IS organic and not centrally planned." I did feel Desmet was soft or noncommittal in ascribing blame for the Mass Formation Psychosis, but maybe he did not feel competent to do so at the time. And, it is certainly possible to set something "organic" in motion. Regarding it "not being centrally planned" did Desmet truly take that position? I think I would remember if he had, but I don't honestly recall, so I'm asking?
Is it possible that this is a squabble over terminology? BTW, I like your term better.
I see everything you outlined as exactly WHY Desmet is correct! His paradigm for mass formation was EXPLOITED by TPTB to induce fear, disconnectedness, hopelessness. The constant drumbeat of coordinated propaganda was used specifically to induce the irrational behaviors they did, just as they did with other greatest hits like "Climate change!," "Trump is literally Hitler," "Russia!," "Ukraine!" Both can be true: Mass formation is the phenomenon, and this was done to society on purpose.
God Give me Strength..Seriously?
These.moronic assholes are truly the walking dead..They aint playing movie extra parts... Im talking bout the 'Experts' as for the peeps? It can never be made sense of..too big a rabbit hole. Jst grateful to know there are true like minded Souls out here in the wilderness of NO, I wil not, I do not Consent to ANYTHING that compromises my understanding of Free Will/Choice/Divine Nature
Critical repost. These guys are psychopaths. Maybe Malone too. See my recent interview with a psychopath whisperer here: https://robertyoho.substack.com/p/9e861054-b7f2-453d-8f22-0a10c7b6d2e6
Idk, Malone seems to be snuckered by Mattias.
Mattias story of Mass Formation seems like a strange tale. I dont buy it. Cute though
Then you clearly don't have the mental abilities to comprehend it. It's really not that difficult. WTF is wrong with you folks? Have you even listened to Desmet explain it? It makes perfect sense and he never "blames the victim". And I now cannot trust anyone who claims that he does. That means anybody here, Hopkins, anyone who pretends to not understand Desmet is suspect as hell.
Malone seems to have done lots of good. Bad judgement to start w Desmet tho. Hes had a phenomenally successful career of excellent judgment so he needs to be watched. I took my subscription to him off paid.
Isn't anyone concerned about all of his DoD/DARPA/BARDA work? He was proposal manager or program manager or chief guru on a large number of very expensive government IDIQ contracts. He has been working in defense biotech for ages. Also, he supposedly took famotidine to treat his January 2020 case of Covid (how did he know it was Covid? tested antibodies later?) He had already run the chemistry against the SARS genome in order to know famotidine could help. He is knowledgeable about the patents. Lots to think about.
i enjoy his friday funnies, and travel tales, and also politics, constitutional issues etc.
not really a good sign that he ended up drinking his own cool aid and got two Moderna jabs ...
Where are you seeing anywhere that he says "we should not fight the globalists". Show me a quote where he actually says this or STFU
Fighting invites more of the same. Creating new paradigms and groups and opinions will seed and reseed for ever. Growth is the desired result. Growth of the good we desire rather than fight the evil we dont want.
The psychological condition IS the power. Hitler would have been harmless without the masses ... I do not see the trouble with acknowledging the human flaw of mass formation while directing anger and force for change at those who use it ...
Mass formation is nothing new ... Desmet was only articulating “popular delusions and the madness of crowds”.
Exactly these people either don't get or or they are trolls spreading smears.
This doesn’t change the phenomenon of Trauma Based Mind Control, so effectively utilized on 9/11 and other FF PsyOps to use emotional conditioning to download a control narrative that is unopposed and repeated.
It is invariably a combination of many factors. The consistent tactic on all levels is divide and conquer to maintain the chaos for later re-ordering.
‘It must be true because I saw it on TV’ has been replaced by:
‘It must be true because my Smart Phone didn’t censor it.’
Gaslighting the masses is a fine art form!
The so-called experts believe their own BS!
dr. malone got jabbed twice ... talk about drinking your own kool aid ...
He explained he needed to travel.
Big Mistake!
Yes but what did he get jabbed with? Inquiring minds want to know.
Not sure why Hopkins can't seem to wrap his head around this, nor why he is so aggressive in advertising gowns why he doesn't understand it. Hopkins' description of the theory is so dishonest and wrong that I can't help but think that someone as seemingly intelligent as Hopkins has an agenda. Matthias never once suggests that the causes of mass formation are anything other than manipulations from above. And Hopkins isn't the only one in attack-dog mode regarding this. Hopkins is really damaging his reputation with this, since he either has an agenda, or he really isn't that smart.
Be nice if we could correct auto formatting mistakes in these comments but oh well.
Desmet is a fad and he "discovered" nothing:
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/mass-formation-is-misrepresented
At the end of my old article, I am quoting Jon Rappoport, who says just about the same as I did nearly two months before his message...
Did Mattias tell the Mass Murderer under his care that the people he Murdered was lonely and wanted killed.
Ugh
Understanding how people en masse buy into propaganda and willingly and even zealously turn a dogged blind eye to the truth is worth psychological scrutiny. PsyOps is aware of the psychology of masses and they use that to manipulate. Nothing wrong with the masses to become educated on how this happens so they can be better aware and protect themselves and understand others. Desmet is very clear that deliberate victimization has occurred and that fear is being used to manipulate.
You can't just go around reporting patient's crimes. There is confidentiality. You are mandated to report only if you think they are about to commit murder. that is the duty to warn. A psychologist is not supposed to turn in their patients for past deeds, no matter how heinous. If they're currently engaged in child abuse, killing people, etc, then you must report.
Okay, so Desmet was morally wrong to not report his patient's crimes. And he was wrong to lie about seeing open-heart surgery with only hypnosis for anesthesia.
But I'm not willing to throw out his mass formation theory as a fraud, and here's why:
Being the type who doesn't take anyone's word for anything, I double-checked the claim that his theory lets the totalitarian leaders off the hook because they too are hypnotized and 'don't know what they're doing', or that there is no deliberate conspiracy at the top, or that 'there is no one and nothing to fight'.
I went back to Desmet's early interview with Aubrey Marcus (Jan. 2022). The above interpretations are not supportable. Specifically, Desmet's idea that the rulers are hypnotized is a more nuanced one.
In fact, he offers the best explanation I've seen so far, about how the so-called controllers can make such huge blunders in public - and everyone can see it except for them.
This is from the transcript near the end of that long interview:
"The field of attention of the person who hypnotizes is usually even narrower than the masses themselves. So that’s why the experts in this situation, they make mistakes that ordinary people wouldn’t make, and that it was very clear to me from the beginning. If you look at the statistics and the numbers that are presented through the mass media, they often are so blatantly wrong that even a child can see it. And still it is as if many of the experts do not realize it. And that’s because in one way or another, they very often are hypnotized, or their field of attention is even narrower. So we could talk for days about the leaders of the masses.
It’s very complicated because in one way or another, they are hypnotized. In another way, they often manipulate and cheat and lie to the people, and that’s because they do really believe in their ideology and the ideals they are striving for. That’s something they are usually hypnotized by.
But usually they do not believe in the narrative that they are presenting to the people. They feel that it is justified to lie to the people and to manipulate them. So you have to make a distinction there. They are hypnotized in this sense that they really believe in a megalomaniac way, that their ideology will create a kind of a paradise for humanity. But that doesn’t mean that they believe everything they are telling, because usually they know that they are manipulating the population. So it’s double, I think."
Desmet also identified a segment who go along with the narrative from fear rather than sincere belief - only he puts the number at 40%, whereas Hopkins thinks it's 66%. No real rebuttal there.
And Desmet DOES say that we (the noncompliant 30%) need to fight -- first to find others like us, and then to form a community -- in his words, the goal is to "survive outside of the system in a parallel structure and just wait until the system destroys itself."
He even predicted that the implosion of this totalitarian system would happen faster than in the past.
And since one test to validate a scientific theory is its ability to predict, I am waiting to see if he is right.